61 Mary Street
David Leonard (Secretary), Anna Gerber (President, Chair), Garry Ford, Gary Crothers, Brett Maxfield, Tony Miles, Paul James (Vice-president), Peter Clarke, Michael Oliver (Treasurer), James Iseppi (MC member), Mark Allen, Ian Lister, David Lodeiro, Victor Rodriguez, Barrie Hill, Bradley Schatz
Meeting opened at 6.48pm.
Kevin Fleming, Alan Wills, Andrew Crouch, Scott Lamshed, Rod Beech.
Apologies accepted.
Our working group met in December. It consisted of Ian Lister, Brett Maxfield, David Leonard and Tony Miles. The meeting was about getting up to speed. Ian had previously circulated key RFCs. We discussed our options regarding addressing, but we don't want to be rushing into producing a standard until it is relevant. We have been looking at 6to4 addresses [derived from existing RFC1918 addresses]. They are attractive for the short term because they have no administrative overhead and everyone will get a /48 subnet. One major problem is that the OS of choice of some of the working group (OpenBSD) does not support 6to4 [for security reasons]. We have more investigations to go on 6to4 and IPv6. It is good for automatic tunnels, and manual tunnels. Both use protocol 41. David and Ian are currently testing IPv6 tunnels over the internet (via ipv6.net.au). Our plan is to keep testing and documenting to make it easier for other members to come up to speed with it quickly.
We are obliged under the Associations Act, as well as our own Rules (s22.3) to appoint an auditor at our first general meeting. David has contacted a couple of auditors from the yellow pages. The quoted costs ranged from $300 to $800. David is appealing to members to help find an auditor who is willing to work pro bono or for something like a carton of beer.
Garry Ford opined that we will be hard pressed to get anyone to do it for free. Someone asked what the requirements are for being an auditor. Gary Crothers mentioned that QDG has a member- accountant (CPA) who does their books, but he is loathe to ask him to burden himself with more unpaid work. Anna said she knew some accounting students. Ian Lister said he will ask his friend who is an auditor at a big accounting firm if they are able to help.
Garry Ford said that getting a free audit will become more of a problem if we ever get big government grants. Paul James suggested that in that case part of the grant will go towards a real auditor.
Michael Oliver quoted from a section of the
Corporations Act
about the requirements of an auditor. Namely that they be
a CPA, or have studied and passed accounting with an auditing
component for 3 years.
MOTION: That the Management Committee find an auditor and defer the
appointment of an auditor to the next general meeting.
(Moved: David Leonard. Seconded: Anna Gerber)
There was discussion if this motion satisfies our
obligations under the act and rule 22.3. There
was general but dubious consensus on this.
CARRIED (no objections)
Mark has completed writing the application. He has some more
paperwork to fill out for the council. This should be complete
by the next meeting. Mark asked for someone with a colour
laser printer. David Leonard indicated he had access to a
colour printer.
Michael Oliver remarked that we cannot submit an application
until we have a PLI certificate. Paul James suggested that
a current certificate [i.e. the application?] would suffice.
Garry Ford asked if the premium for the insurance will rise
with the sites that are going up as that will increase the
risk. Paul James said that he did not think that was the case.
Gary Crothers confirmed that QDG (which is also insured by
CGU) has not had their premiums rise.
The floor was opened to any further business.
David was asked by Barrie Hill, a non-member if he could
attend the meeting. Several other non-members (including
non-financial members) were present at the meeting too, but
the real query was do we formalise how open our meetings are.
MOTION: The general Public are welcome to attend our meetings
(Moved: David Leonard. Seconded Anna Gerber)
James Iseppi remarked that allowing the press to
attend our meetings could be bad.
Michael Oliver asked if 'meetings' included the
management committee meetings.
AMMENDMENT: Replace 'our meetings' with 'our general meetings'
(Moved: Michael Oliver. Seconded David Leonard)
CARRIED (no objections)
CARRIED AS AMMENDED (no objections)
Paul James said that he and David Leonard had been having
a discussion whether Brismesh was a charity or a business.
Michael Oliver said that we have no chance of getting charity
status, and that we are a not-for-profit business.
Garry Ford said that it is possible for us to get an
'educational body' classification. Michael Oliver replied that
there is a 'twist' in getting such a classification; it has
'side issues', one of which is that we would have to scrap
membership fees. Educational bodies can also claim charity
status only on building funds. Garry Ford agreed that such
building funds attract a tax deduction. Paul James remarked
that an educational body classification may open doors for
Brismesh.
Paul James brought the topic back into focus by saying that he
wanted a clear picture from the members of our direction now
that we are charging membership fees. He said that because
Brismesh has limited resources we should focus our activity
on our member base [instead of on public good exercises].
Ian Lister said that the question of direction will be an
ongoing question as membership and management change. Anna
Gerber said that individual member's motivations will be
different from wanting to connect to a specific person, or
wanting to connect to any and everyone.
Garry Ford said that current ongoing connection costs is the
reason Brismesh appeals to people [as opposed to existing
methods of connections a.k.a. 'Telstra tax'].
David Leonard indicated that the original inception of
Brisbane Mesh was intended to be a public good infrastructure
exercise, but that the hurdles of carrier licencing, and also
getting good access to sites such as the BCC reservoirs meant
that we had to incorporate.
Paul James said that our aim is not to become just an ISP
and sell bandwidth to our members, and that membership fees
are a way forward to achieve our goals. He pointed out that
in the past four years without fees no achievements had been
made. Anna Gerber said that technology was more expensive
previously.
Brett Maxfield said that the most important thing was the
shared infrastructure, which requires PLI [and that was where
the money should go.]
Bradley Schatz asked if a purpose of the organization had been
tabled yet. Anna Gerber responded that we have
a section
in our rules outlining the Objects of the association. Garry
Ford said that the Objects were written to get a foothold on
the educational aspect, and that is why they're so open to
interpretation.
Michael Oliver said that this will be an ongoing changing
thing. Paul James said that getting some standpoint agreed
to now would be good.
David Leonard asked if the question could be better rephrased
as 'what is our relationship to the public?' Anna Gerber said
that we will be involved in educating the public. Brett Maxfield
said that we will only be providing network access to our
members though. Anna Gerber said that non-financial members
should be able to connect. Garry Ford said that as long as
they appear somewhere [in the interpretation of member] it is
OK.
Paul James said that we must be careful of members letting
non-members connect to the network, as the non-members
could transitively connect to other non-members and then
we would 'have a riot on our hands'.
Anna Gerber said that members have an advantage of being able
to take part in these meetings and decide where the big sites
will be.
Paul James refocused the discussion again and said that David
saw Brismesh as a charity. David clarified this by saying that
he saw Brismesh has a strong charitable aspect. Ian Lister
rephrased this as it working for the public good. Paul James
said that it is a matter of getting the right balance.
Garry Ford said that the
BCC
will want to see a charitable
aspect in our association.
Bradley Schatz asked what the reasons were for not allowing
the public to connect to the network. Garry Ford replied
that we would need a carrier licence under the
Telecommunications Act.
There was general discussion about how this was covered
by our definition of Ordinary Member in the rules, and
what was meant by Associate member.
MOTION: That we clearly define Associate member (s5.1(c)) in our
By-Laws.
(Moved: David Leonard. Seconded: Michael Oliver)
CARRIED (no objections)
Garry Ford suggested that the definition be substantially
similar to the Ordinary Member definition in
s5.1(a). There
was a query why from Paul James. Garry replied that it was
to use the same way that
APANA
used to get around an ACA
interpretation.
David Leonard asked if associate member was related to Ian
Lister's previous suggestion of 'night club'-style membership.
Paul James said such a scheme would probably be too risky
with respect to the ACA. Garry Ford pointed out that APANA
had a similar scheme (trial membership) which was implemented
as an online web form. They removed it because the ACA told
them they treated such trial members as third parties.
Peter Clarke said that he understood that his brother would
be able to use the Brismesh network as he is covered under
the definition of Ordinary member, but asked if his friends
that came over for a LAN party would also be covered in the
same way. Garry Ford replied that they would be.
Mark enquired if there were other sites around Brisbane that
should be considered for proposals to council for linking up.
There was some general discussion.
There was some discussion about the rotating day-of-the
week for meetings. It was generally agreed that Friday evenings
were to be exempted. Some people said that inner-city venues
were much appreciated.
Because the next day on the rotation was going to be a
Saturday, there was dicsussion about it being late afternoon,
and possibly involving a BBQ.
MOTION: That the next general meeting of Brismesh be held on
Saturday 28 Feb 2004, at 4pm, at a venue to be announced.
(Moved: David Leonard. Seconded Paul James.)
CARRIED (no objections)
There being no further business, the meeting was closed at 7.36pm
Present: David Leonard, Anna Gerber, Paul James, Michael Oliver, James Iseppi
Opened at 7.40pm
Closed at 8pm